Problogger.com Review
Written by Chewie on October 8, 2009 – 1:49 amWell I took the plunge and spent almost 2 bucks to join Problogger.com to see what all the hub bub was about, and to let some of you guys know whether it was enlightening or if anything had value there. So here is what I found.
Its pretty much just a forum. I didn’t see any valuable tools to help people build better sites, or learn how to build a website with real long term value. What I did find was a couple links to an eBook about building a better blog by yours truly, Darren Rowse. If you join the forum, some of the topics you will be discussing include Blog Promotion, Finding Readers for your blog, making money with your blog, writing content etc..
I did find a lot of newbs in there trying to find out how to grow their social traffic to engage readers. Lets stop right there. I hate it every time I talk about social traffic as being worthless when someone comes up right behind me and says that “blogging” is not about the money, but about building friendships and having a readership and building trust. Here is what ends up happening with that trust. Just like these A-list bloggers who abuse it, so do their followers who promote the same trash they do, leading people to believe its a hidden jewel. They write a stupid review on something that is crap, making it appear that the product is helping them make tons of money just to add another $3k or 4k into their pockets at the end of the month. Then they show you the reader that they made $40,000 and tell you that you can do it too. But they never tell you about how to get organic traffic which can help make you money consistently with a blog .
If you are a big A-lister I challenge you to come up with something that has real value about making money. Stop telling people that as long as you are passionate about writing about any subject that you will make money. I know some people think I am a jerk for being real about this, but if I reinforced a positive mentality about making money online, but never really gave you tips on how to build a sustainable income, would you keep coming back and kiss my butt? I bet some might. It’s what quite a few followers do with Rowse and Chow every week. I’m willing to bet that some people joined that forum in hopes of truly learning how to make money with a blog, and they aren’t going to get that. If you join the Problogger forum, You aren’t going to hear about the type of links to get in order to improve rankings, or how to get a double listing in Google, or even how to do proper keyword research. What you will get is a community of people that are clueless with the exception of a few, and you will be learning how to grow traffic through social means which will put you back in the hamster wheel spinning for nothing.
Bottom line is you either treat this as a business or you don’t. Do you want to be a Pro Blogger? Do you write for fun, or do you write to make money. Do you want to build sites that you can walk away from and make thousands of dollars a year off of, or do you want to write on sites that require you to go out and get more Twitter fans, more Facebook fans and more feed readers to make you feel good?
Here are my final words on joining Problogger.com. If you want to make some buddies, and talk about twitter followers and answer polls then go for it. But… if you want to make real money and have a real knowledge of how and why people click on ads, as well as how to get sustainable traffic that will help you make money online for ages, then its a waste of time.
If anyone wants one on one training, all you have to do is ask and I will be more than happy to answer any questions you may have for free. All you have to do is shoot me an email.
Posted in Blogging | 18 Comments »
October 8th, 2009 at 3:55 am
I am going to have to agree with you. I spent quite a bit of time trying to learn how to make money by building blogs, and while Problogger is where I tried to start learning, I have not really learned anything that is going to get me to the level that he is. I think that he withholds knowledge at times.
I have learned quite a bit from Grizz, Court and you. I wasn’t planning on signing up for that forum but thought I would leave a comment in agreement with you.
October 8th, 2009 at 6:05 am
Thanks for writing this. There have been a few other honest reviews, but mainly just a bunch of fawning sycophants. It’s a shame because I’ve read Darren from a very early stage in his career and for years wold have been proud to call him a friend. I still bear him no animosity, personally, but as a businessman I feel he has lost the bubble completely.
What the web in particular and blogging especially does _not_ need is yet another forum full of newbies. We also don’t need networks like Darren’s B-5 media that exist by outsourcing very cheaply written blogs to third-world writers and filling the ‘Net with yet more filler.
Some years ago Darren and I were in the same auction for http://www.problogger.com. I stopped when the bidding got to $5,000 USD.
He won the auction shortly thereafter …how much more he paid I have no idea. But in the several years he has owned it, the best thing he can think of for the URL is to host a ‘for pay” forum? That is soo, soo ‘last year’ if not ‘last century’. I’m disappointed.
Now I really kick myself for not bidding more in that auction .. of well, no guts, no glory as we well know ….
I find Darren’s writing now so boring and unreal I haven’t read anything from him since his last 21 days to a better blog series which was mind-numbingly formulaic.
Good luck, old friend, but you’ll have to do it without me … sign me ‘asleep at the wheel’ (yawn).
October 8th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
It’s so classic it hurts. Really in the end it doesn’t matter what platform you use or don’t use if you spend as much time building links as Vic and Grizz or as much time talking about wine like Gary Vaynerchuk you are going to make money. That’s the simple fact. Those people worked very consistantly and hard to get to where they are.
All of these noobs paying $2 for a forum are simply looking for the magic bullet and they will be sadly mistaken. Some choose link building and some social media or somewhere in between. In the end it is work and work ethic that helps to get you paid. If you’re not willing to put in the time of effort it will amount to nothing in the end, just noise. If Darren isn’t preaching busting your ass 6 hrs of every day to make that money or more then these people are going to walk away 2 dollars shorter every month.
October 8th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
There is so much to read at problogger and I never had the chance to read them all. At some point, I thought about Problogger only makes noobs pay. Like for example on forum. And then for the ebooks.
October 8th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Thanks for your feedback – it all helps improve what we do.
I’m sorry you didn’t find value in the forum. I’m not really sure what to say – it was advertised as a forum for people to come together to work at improving their blogs – that’s what people are doing.
It doesn’t promise anyone that they’ll make more money, that there will be exclusive teaching that they can’t get anywhere else – it was just presented as a place where there will be other bloggers wanting to collaborate and learn from one another.
So far, the majority of members there seem to be doing just that, collaborating, learning together and improving their blogs.
A lot of those who have joined are newer bloggers – I’m not sure why people are so surprised by that. That’s who reads my blog – people who want to learn about the basics of blogging, people who are unsure what to write about, people who don’t know what Twitter is, people who need an introduction to the basics. As a result – that’s the kind of stuff being discussed largely at this point.
Having said that – there’s quite a few more experienced bloggers in there sharing what they know too. Sure – none of them are Michael Arrington or Kevin Rose mega A-listers – but does matter? It’s bloggers working together at improving their blogs.
I guess also there’s the type of blogger in the forum who takes a similar approach to me. As ‘the real Josh’ wisely says in his comments – there are bloggers who choose the link building way and others who go the social media route – and others who are in between. I’m probably more the social media route – I don’t write off link building, it’s just not who I am and it’s not my style of blogging – as a result I probably attract others who have a similar style.
If none of this is where you or others are at (and not every blogger will be) – there’s no pressure to stay. I’m at peace with people leaving if they don’t find a fit.
While I’ve never promised refunds – if people feel that they ripped off and would like their $1.95 back I’d be happy to refund it – I’d rather people leave feeling happy that they tried but knowing it’s not for them and with their $2 back for their next coffee than feeling that they’d been taken for a ride.
If anyone has issues that they’d like to discuss about any of this I’m more than open to being emailed via my site’s contact form.
October 8th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Darren, I have read your blog for a long time, I really appreciate the fact that you have such a positive attitude about blogging and growing. But one thing that bothers me here about this statement “I don’t write off link building, it’s just not who I am and it’s not my style of blogging.” So why do you promote selling links? I see banners for links in a couple places on your blog, and they have been there for a long while.
October 9th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Kevin – yes you’re right – there are advertisers who buy ad space on my site that are in that business. I don’t promote it directly, but the company who sells my ads has sold a long term contract to them.
I’m not against link building – I just don’t do it myself – well not directly. In some ways my approach is to generate links to my site a little more indirectly….
My approach to building links is to just concentrate on writing the type of content that gets linked to rather than to spend my time arranging links with other sites.
Again – I’m not against people who build links, I guess for me it just fits with my personality and how I like to spend my time and out of my own experience of generating search traffic that I prefer to spend time writing content and engaging in social networks than link building.
Each to their own – you certainly won’t see me writing rant posts tearing down someone else’s approach to blogging (unless it’s unethical) just because they approach things from a different angle to me – I’m a firm believer that there are many ways to make a living from blogging and that mine is just one way.
While people may critique me for just talking about social media and generating traffic from writing quality content I can only really speak from my personal experience – just as the link building bloggers can only really speak from theirs.
October 10th, 2009 at 1:36 am
Thanks for wasting your money and wasting your time Whatawookie.
I can come together with other honest internet marketers for free. I can also learn how to build a profitable blog and make money online free without someone reaching their hand in my pocket.
It was nice of Darren Rowse to stop in and give his review on his own Problogger.com.
I still do not understand the value of being a blogger. Or why someone would pay money to learn to be a blogger. I thought most newbies wanted to learn how to make money online not learn how to blog.
Those poor people will starve before they figure out there is no money in social networking. And shame on anyone who promotes to total noobs that there is.
Its bad enough that people promote this kind of crap, let alone take innocent peoples money.
Shame on anyone who victimizes another person for telling them this is how to make money online. This is exactly why the government wants to scrutinize these bloggers.
October 11th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
I think the main problem is that Darren and his cronies don’t tell the “whole truth.”
I have been around long enough to know that if I write brilliant posts that engage readers and I write thousands of these posts, but the niche is about “blue pet rocks with black eyes”… there just ain’t anyone gonna “naturally” link to that.
In other words, if you build sites outside of MMO, internet marketing and tech, there are no natural links to be had.
But if you read Problogger.com and the forums and Problogger.net, you will find out that “good content brings readers”… just Tweet it!
that is BS,
AL
October 12th, 2009 at 4:28 am
Interesting article, and comments. I stumbled this as a result of a thread in another forum I visit from time to time. I am not a professional blogger, although I do have a blog for my business. I had never heard of Darren Rowse before now, so I have not had the opportunity to visit his site, but thought I might add a different perspective to the paid forum debate.
I visit many forums throughout the Internet to network and promote my services. So many of these forums are inundated with spam, MLM ads, and scams. I often find myself going MIA as a result of the nonsense.
I wish more forums would charge a fee for membership. I don’t many spammers who would be willing to post thousands of ads a day to thousands of forums if they had to pay a fee to post.
To me, it would be well worth a few bucks a month to have a place to go where we could focus on the topic at hand, and not have to weed through all the garbage.
A note to Denise: Social networking does make money for many people. I have definitely gained customers as a result of my participation in various networks. It is about building relationships, and people tend to do business with people they know and like.
Like anything else, it takes time. It is just one more avenue of advertising.
October 12th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Vickie – your site is two years old, no PR, no Alexa ranking, no traffic and no comments.
Social networking is nothing more than people like you (Bloggers and Internet Marketers) trying to get other people like you to buy stuff and they don’t.
You make the rounds leaving comments like this but never buy anything on the sites you visit or click the ads. And the people you socialize with do the same. A complete waste of time if you are trying to make money online.
Darren’s forum, paid or otherwise, is full of people just like you trying to sell themselves to each other. Spend some time targeting people who use the internet to purchase things or gather info and you will make money – people who are not Internet marketers or bloggers.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Griz, you presume an awful lot about me. How do you know what I buy or what ads I click on? The fact is, you don’t.
The site my name links to is not two years old. The parent site it is attached to is. The site my name links to is about two or three months old. It is a new venture, in addition to others I own.
As for social networking, as I said, it is just one of many advertising opportunities. I did not say, nor did I imply that a person should spend a tremendous amount of time at it.
I understand target marketing quite well, thanks.
Not sure why my post triggered such a hostile answer. I offered what I believed to be a quite respectful opinion, albeit different than your own.
October 12th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Just to clear up any misinformation about my new web site.
Whois search results:
Domain Name: MYLOCALJOBMARKET.COM
Created on…………..: 2009-08-18 01:00:59 GMT
Expires on…………..: 2010-08-18 01:00:59 GMT
Last modified on……..: 2009-08-18 01:00:59 GMT
As you can see, it is, as I said, only a few months old. It is also still under construction, so I don’t do much in the way of promoting it yet.
As for the lack of comments, you may have noticed that I have comments turned off.
Have a great day
October 12th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Thou dost protest too much – how about a site that is successful built on social media?
October 12th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Not protesting, just clearing up the erroneous info you posted about my new site.
Social networking…as I said, I gained customers as a result, and felt it was worth spending some time on. Not a lot of time, but some time (in addition to many other things).
I am not sure why you are being so defensive. simply offered a different perspective, and did so in a respectful manner. Honestly, I don’t understand the attack.
On the other hand, Grizzly aren’t known for being warm and fuzzy…
October 12th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
Interesting… http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Awhatawookie.com%2Fproblogger-com-review%2F&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
October 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
This post turned out to be quite the firestorm, not is a crazy way. But I think a lot has been said here that really shows the divide of personalities and methods. A million ways to skin a cat is often brought up but really if you want to make money online Griz is definitely right about targeting people who are out to buy stuff. One the flip side if you want to participate in the great social pub house and “write” good content and carry on conversations with others then great, do it. I am all for some combination of the two. Since I work from home socialize online is fun and keeps things interesting, but twitter doesn’t pay my bills, probably never will, unless somehow I brand my way to the top of marketing mountain and get asked to speak for lots of money, but I digress.
I love number 2 (griz) and 10 (wookie) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=problogger.com&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g-s1
October 22nd, 2009 at 8:47 am
Apologies for not continuing this discussion – I’ve been traveling and am only just home.
Denise – I’m sorry if you think I’m victimising people. All I can really say is that at $1.95 a month and the promise of money back I’m not sure how you could think that. While I don’t think what I’m doing will be for everyone we continue to see people signing up and telling me that they value the community. Ultimately though each person has their choice.
In terms of the ‘government scrutinising these bloggers’ – I’m not sure on what grounds you think we need to be scrutinised. I’m just a guy sharing what I know about blogging and setting up a place for people to interact with each other around that topic. I regularly write about how blogging isn’t a get rich quick thing… I’m not sure how I am victimising anyone?
Allyn – I’m not sure what else there is to say. You seem to I argue that ‘great content is enough’ – I’ve never argued that. I do believe that great content is part of how to build an ongoing readership – but only a month back wrote about how it is not the only element in a post The Myth of ‘Great Content’ Marketing Itself. Really sorry but I’m not sure where the perception that I’m just about ‘great content’ being the only key comes from. I’ve written thousands of posts on ProBlogger – writing content is just one of many categories of posts.
Griz – ‘Social networking is nothing more than people like you (Bloggers and Internet Marketers) trying to get other people like you to buy stuff and they don’t.’
I’m sorry but I find your arguments a little odd. For someone who has critiqued those using social media for being closed to SEO I find it odd that you seem so closed to social media where there’s plenty of people around who use it to make a good living.
I personally think you make some good arguments about SEO and how bloggers should widen their perspective – but perhaps there’s some good reason for you to widen yours too?
In the same way that you and your readers say that you’re thankful that social media proponents ignore SEO because it makes things easier for you guys perhaps there are a few social media people thankful that you guys don’t get social media. I actually think somewhere between the two is some real opportunity.
My experience is that having a well optimised site that targets readers but also driving significant traffic through social media – not to mention having RSS and email subscribers and getting traffic from other sites – all adds to a profitable business.
Anyway – just my two cents worth.